Gembah & Private Label Product Development
Developing new quality products. It’s one of the most difficult parts of the private label process. So we brought on Zack Leonard of Gembah to walk us through some of the most important details. All coming up in this episode of the Amazon Seller Podcast.
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Nathan (Intro): (00:00)
Developing new quality products – It’s one of the most difficult parts of the private label process. So we brought on Zack Leonard of Ghemba to walk us through some of the most important details all coming up in this episode of the Amazon Seller Podcast.
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Welcome to another episode of the Amazon seller podcast. Today we have Zack Leonard, a founder of Ghemba with us on the show. Thanks for coming on,
Excited to be here and excited to share the knowledge I have with your audience.
Awesome. so Zack you started a company called Ghemba. So let’s talk a little bit about what it is that you do and and then based on that, I think we’ll have some things to share with Amazon sellers that may be helpful for their business in terms of product development.
Yeah. So at the end of the day, what Ghemba does is help drive value on the supply side of things. So we work with seven, eight, and nine figure sellers to help them add new, exciting products to their existing catalogs or help them get their supply chain under control through what we’d like to call supply chain optimization that’s helping them navigate the murky waters of working with overseas manufacturers, getting better pricing scaling their businesses. Yeah. So anything you can think of that that is before you actually sell the product, you can put it on Amazon. That is what we handle at Ghemba.
Got it. So at which point, I guess what I’m, what I want to say, sellers at different points in their business come to you to help them. Maybe we can kind of talk through some of those scenarios. So one scenario is I have an idea for a product and come to you and I say, you know I want you to help me source this product.
Yeah. That is definitely a way that customers come and engage Ghemba. It actually can start even before that and they have they want an idea to help streamlined and get new products into there existing catalog faster. So we actually started the research phase. You know, we have a network of suppliers that spans over six countries and in 500 different networks and all of them are dying to talk to, you know, dedicated sellers on Amazon to help them with new products that they haven’t come out within the market yet. We’ve actually recently have done this for a couple of our customers where they find the latest and greatest technology. Think of it as like, you know, the concept car, a showroom mentality where they’re coming to you and saying, here’s a product we haven’t launched yet. Are you interested in, you can have exclusive rights, you know, that kind of thing. If you’ve done the research and see that that’s an opportunity or you think that that’s a way that you can help add some revenue to your existing just in catalog of SKUs we’ll talk with the factories on your behalf.
Get the understanding of what that would take for them to give exclusive rights or to give that latest and greatest technology to you, and then you can start selling it. If you have an idea, you’re on your own. That is another way that when you start working with our team of engineers and designers to help create the design collateral and made for manufacturing specs. So you start to look like your professional with the factories. A lot of customers come to us. I’ve tried to do it. They’re on their own and they either have an industrial designer that’s ever made a product before they’re going straight to the factory and trying to build the product going back and forth with the factory.
There are two things that’s wrong with that. First, there’s no defensibility on that. So if you’re looking to cast and sort of protection with through IP, with the patents, there’s nothing patentable about a conversation with a supplier. And second, you’re going to look like a professional if you actually show up to their doorstep with a major manufacturing spec. So they’re going to take you more serious. They’re going to get you better pricing at the end of the day. It’s also going to cut downtime in the sampling process. So our goal is to help our customers and they have a new idea to get it flushed out really quickly, get it to market as fast as we can. And we’ve been doing that on average and about 120 days from start to finish soup to nuts.
Got it. And, and so one of the unique things that I think you mentioned and that we’ve spoken about before, is that somebody can actually come to Ghemba and say I don’t have an idea, but I want you to do research and develop an idea for me for a product to sell on Amazon.
Yeah, that’s absolutely right. And like I said, we’ve had a couple of examples of that before where they have, you know, an idea of a market they want to tap into or we look at their existing catalog and we can start the process there and again talk to our factories and say, Hey, you know, this guy is selling this type of product or they want to expand in a certain category. We’ll do some research looking at some tools or doing some research that we have internally and proprietary and you know, through our, through our software and come to them with an idea of here are some opportunities for you based on what you’re selling. Or based on, you know, third-degree relationships of what you’re selling or second-degree relationships with what you’re selling on Amazon. And you able to start the sketching process from there and say, okay, well there’s, products that are already out there in the market. Here’s some, here’s what the reviews are saying. Here are the changes that most people are asking to make. We can start, you know, really designing from there and then come back to them with a full major manufacturing spec after we’ve gone through some area of process on the design phase. Once that’s done, then they can go to the factory and talk and have that real price negotiation conversation on what it would take to get the product to market and the time, the time frame, the payment terms, et cetera, everything you need to do to, to launch a new product, especially on the, on the supplier side.
Got it. And I mean, I just think it’s a, it’s a much better way to go in today’s, at least if you’re looking to launch your product on Amazon, you really need to differentiate your product. You need to have something, I think more unique than just another product. I mean, there are so many. There’s a, a seller I got introduced to yesterday, somebody introduced me and they said to me you know, they need some help with their advertising. Can you help them? And I had a conversation, with the seller and they have two products. One of them was a bundle of like reusable Silicon, you know, like Ziploc type ads storage bags. And the other product was the sharpen pencils and like a sharpener and a few things. And, and I look at that and I kind of told them like, look, I can’t really help you. I mean, you have one, one review on one product you know, a little bit more than the other one and you kind of have me two products and there’s no way that I’m going to take that on to help you advertise because they just think you’re sort of, you’re starting off dead in the water. And I think in today’s space on Amazon, you need to go way beyond, you know, simple, generic type products. So I think where you guys come in is being able to, being able to help develop, right? That concept where a seller may not necessarily have the exact concept in their mind for how they want to differentiate, but they know there’s a market, you know, there’s an opportunity based on, based on keywords, based on reviews, based on what customers are searching for on Amazon, but they don’t necessarily know what is, what is it that I need to kind of come in with that will make me different in the market?
Yeah, that’s absolutely right. The way, the way we look at the opportunities for, you know, going to market on Amazon is really in three different ways. One is you can white label a product. The second way is incremental innovation where you’re taking an existing product and enhancing it,
When you say white-label, what does, let’s just talk about that for a, what is white label versus private label? Is it the same thing or
To me, it’s the same thing. It’s interchangeable, it’s basically you’re taking a product that already exists in the market and you’re rebranding it with your brands. Maybe changing the color, but there’s no functional difference or no design difference other than changing the color or putting your brand on it,
Which in reality this is what, you know, 90 95%. I don’t have obviously statistics on this, but this is what most sellers do. This is also what has always sort of worked in the past I think. Right?
That’s right. And I think in today’s landscape you’re starting to see that it’s become a race to the bottom, especially with all the Chinese suppliers as well as the Chinese manufacturers that are competing with you. By suppliers, I mean Amazon FBA sellers, the recent statistics show that 40% of Amazon sellers are now based in China. So you can just kind of think about how that growth has been tremendous over the last six to 12 months. And it’s going to continue in that trend because they start to see how much money can be made from white labeling. So at the end of the day, if they’re able, if the suppliers are and factories are able to cut out a lot of the costs because they not using a middleman like the average Amazon FBA seller is, there’s no real way for them to compete other than the price. And if they have, maybe they have a leg up with reviews because that’s how most of the products are listed on top of which you’re paying for marketing. So there’s no route from my perspective, there’s no real defensibility when you’re talking about white labeling, private labeling, whatever you want to call it. There’s no defensibility any, unless you have, unless you’re selling a patented product or you have exclusive rights with the factory somehow,
Where are you willing to do something that most sellers are not willing to do? Which is
Right. The larger products that cost more for shipping.
Yes. All that more expensive heavy items that you can only merchant fulfill, right. Where there’s some annoyance to most other sellers that they’re not going to go after either it’s very expensive to source and you’re going to do it because you have the capital or you are willing to, you know, go out yet, go after, go after something that many people won’t, which, which is a good strategy if you could do it, but most sellers either don’t have the capital or the ability or not doing that.
That’s absolutely right. This is why the other two options of incremental innovation or creating something from scratch I believe is where this trend is, is moving towards, you know, the days, what do I’d call, what we call buy and selling is over. I think we’re shifting towards more of a create and sell economy. You have to become exceedingly easy to sell a product. There are so many outlets. There’s Amazon, there’s Instagram, there’s Etsy, there’s you know, retail. There are so many outlets to create, to sell a product. What is challenging is finding opportunities to innovate within a product. And so in the case of Amazon FBA sellers, I would say that incremental innovation is the best foot forward to get into this way of you’re getting new exciting products out there.
Creating something from scratch is really challenging. There are a lot more hurdles you have to overcome. You can use the data like from you know, Helium 10, if you want to do it on your own or jungle scout too, to find the opportunities to do all the accused keyword research. And then the next step would be to look in their reviews of what those keywords are telling you and just come up with an opportunity. You can also look on Etsy to get inspiration of, you know, what the trends are going with.
So you know, I was at the billion-dollar seller summit last week. And Bradley Sutton gave a speech right after I did about you know, how to use Etsy to your advantage. I thought it was really interesting. He was looking on Etsy for inspiration of what was coming out there. And he found a wooden cake stand. And then he started looking on Amazon to see how many wooding cake stands are out there and there’s barely any. But if you go on Etsy right now, that’s where the trend in the market is going. So again, you can start looking at keywords going on Etsy, finding if there’s an opportunity that isn’t out there yet and then you can incrementally innovate cause most of the cakes stands you look at are made out of glass or ceramic or something like that or crystal. But none of them, many of them are made out of wood. It’s so that’s an innovation that you can get a really big leg up on and you can start differentiating from what’s already out there and you can create some, some designs, make it patentable through design patents really, you can do pretty much anything. Once you get into that frame of thinking of, Hey, I can create something that doesn’t exist or, or I can create something that exists and make it better or ride the trend that makes it stand out amongst the crowd.
And we’ve been you know, if for any of our course members or probably even on the podcast, but I think for two or three years we’ve been saying, you know, use Pinterest, use that to use Google images, use, you know, in fact, I have a design patent and I, I got my inspiration off of Amazon to, you know, to find things that were, you know, that I could go in and I can differentiate on, but that we’re just not on the Amazon platform at all. And you know, yeah, having a me-too product, a generic regular product that everybody else has is basically a fight for price and reviews. Now, you know, if you have the capital, you can still succeed on Amazon by going into a market, losing money for a year or two and bullying your way to the top through, you know, a low price, getting reviews and then eventually raising. But again, most, most people don’t have the capability or don’t want to, don’t want to do that. So looking for inspiration elsewhere. And then IP is all smart. So one of the things that come to my head when, when I talk to you about this and probably people listening is okay, well these guys, they go out, they’ll research and market or they’ll find ways I can differentiate a product. Like why don’t you guys do this yourself? Right? You obviously have the ability to, I know it’s not necessarily your model but do you guys also sell yourself? You have this network, you have obviously this ability to create, you know, designers, you have a lot of things in house engineers in house to be able to do this. Why don’t you guys not, not selling?
That’s a great question. I don’t get motivated by that type of engagement at all. It’s not as interesting to me. What I get motivated by is helping others succeed. And I think there’s a big opportunity in the marketplace for, to help, yeah, the small medium-size businesses and entrepreneurs specifically to give the resources for them to do this. So my game is a little bit different in that I really want to help entrepreneurs and be at the forefront of product innovation, whereas, you know, spending the time and dealing with the headaches of Amazon, it’s just not for me.
Also from a customer standpoint, it’s just a conflict of interest. Like they’re sharing a lot of data, confidential information and data with us. It’s the same thing. Like why doesn’t helium 10 have a seller account? Or why don’t they know use all that he works there to their benefit? It’s the same way of thinking. We just don’t want to, you don’t want it. We won’t want any of our customers to think that we’re doing anything like that. And, and so for us, it’s really important to be more of the operating arm and the supply chain arm for our customers and the innovation arm for our customers than it is to compete with them on the same platforms that they’re trying to sell. Right. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. And, yeah, I figured probably just not your model in terms of selling direct, direct to consumer, but probably a question that would come up in people’s minds, like, you know, why, why aren’t you guys just doing this? Let’s switch gears a little bit and just talk about tariffs. What does your network look like in terms of, you know, suppliers in China and in other places, and are you also helping sellers move away from China? Another, another sort of question here is, is moving away from China, you know, actually feasible, right? I mean, it sounds great, but there’s a lot of advantages to working within China. So talk a little bit about the tariff landscape and how you, your customers are kind of dealing with that.
Yeah, absolutely. It’s obviously been a hot topic for the last almost a year now since all these tariffs had been implemented. The reality is, from what we’ve noticed, and again, we’re, we’re sourcing from six different countries. Most of them in Asia. Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, China, Mexico and the U S. And so when you look at the competitive landscape, China’s still from our perspective, giving the best pricing for what would we call the average Amazon seller. Average Amazon sellers are looking for really low MLQs and are not flexible. I don’t have the capacity or not flexible with how they handle their purchase order frequency. You know, a lot of businesses might be seasonal. They might have, you know, spikes for prime day and they might have spikes for black Friday, et cetera. Most of the, most of you know, let’s take Vietnam, for example, Vietnam imports a majority of their raw materials because they don’t have the resources for those raw materials like in India or Korea or a China does. So when you think about that, just from a logistical standpoint, your lead times then increased because they have to import every, pretty much everything that they do from another country. So that adds lead time. Most companies can’t handle that, at least in the Amazon space. The bigger players like Nike, Adidas who have moved their production over there, have that capacity because they’d take your R and D and innovation probably start doing that within like 12 to 18 months, maybe even two years in advance. So they’re coming out, they’re coming out there for their products two years after and they can also own the production lines, you know, putting on millions or hundreds of millions of dollars into these facilities and owning the production line. So most Amazon sellers cannot operate that.
So if you’re looking at an apples to apples comparison from, you know, price and lead times. You’re starting to see that China is still the most competitive, at least from our experience. You know, Vietnam, in general, is going to be, you know, from an injection molded perspective, they’re not as good. Right. From an electronics perspective, they’re not as big as China. There are cotton is mainly what they’re good at. You know, apparel, bags, stuff like that. Backpacks. But they’re just not as sophisticated as that. You know, China is from electronics and an injection-molded standpoint. Mmm.
India is another interesting one. They sell. They have, they definitely are more willing to work with you on the MLQ standpoint but their pricing still comes back a little bit higher because they’re creating those lower MLQs. So you’re looking for more premium products. You know, maybe some stuff that stands out in the crowd from a design perspective. India is a great opportunity for you to start testing out and getting out of China. And those people again are, are selling items that are highly specialized in China. And so even with the tariff situation, we have seen that competitive. You can just apples to apples, price and lead times. Oh, you’re still going to get your best bang for your buck in China.
And, and from talking about India, what type of products are sort of, or categories are good. I know there.
Metal wood. Yeah. Metals, wood more than the cut and sew items. Again, electronics not going to help their they’re okay. You know, glassware is good for injection molded type items. Plastics, definitely not. But those are the types of items that you’ll find in India, more garments. And so, you know, those types of things.
Got it. And have you seen factories out of China setting up, setting up factories in other countries?
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. One of the factories that we’ve been working with for almost a decade now that does injection mold and they do products for, you know, Easton baseball and not, and you know, pretty, pretty sophisticated retail and, and brands. They have started to develop a huge network in Vietnam and starting to build their own side of their factory in Vietnam specifically for that reason. Now, if you think of it from a business perspective, even though they’re setting up, those facilities over in Vietnam, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to pass on price savings from the tariff onto their customers. So you gotta be careful of that. You know, that the labor is definitely cheaper in Vietnam, but it doesn’t mean that they have to make the business decision to give you those, the benefits of those labors.
Another thing that, you know, if you’re going to the negotiation table, you can talk about if, do you have a Chinese supplier that’s working in Vietnam, they actually get a tax benefit for importing everything into Vietnam because it’s a developing country. So basically all they’re paying for is the shipping. So if they’re telling you that pricing’s really high, a key trick is to talk about, you know, bring that to the table and say, well why, I know you’re getting tax benefits because Vietnam’s a developing country and you have a site in China, you also have a sight in Vietnam. So are you discounting based on just the tax benefits you’re getting. So a quick tip for you guys out there that are looking to source elsewhere outside of China. You know, your suppliers are getting a, another factory set up in somewhere like Vietnam.
And so a couple of questions. Have you gone into renegotiating? So I’m a seller. I’m working with my train of a factory and you know, the price I’m getting now with tariffs is obviously making a dent. It is one of the things you have the capability of doing is kind of going in and trying to renegotiate the terms whether it’s, whether it’s additional payment terms because of tariffs or lower pricing to sort of re renegotiate your price. I know also you know, there’ve been currency fluctuations which should have been resulted recently in some lower pricing. Are these all things that you could go in and do on behalf of sellers?
Absolutely. So again, we’re looking to be outsourced, you know, supply chain arm for any seller that we work with, any customer that we work with. Typically if a seller goes through us and they use one of our suppliers or they help or we help them to renegotiate terms, they’re getting on average, somewhere between 18 and 20% off their bottom line, which includes, which is inclusive of our fees. And we actually don’t just do the sourcing side of things. We’ve managed the quality control as well. We use people from our network, you will, that are employed by, by Ghemba to physically go to the factory on their behalf. So that’s absolutely something that we do. And part of it is, you know, understanding the culture over in China, there’s a term called Guangxi, which is the business culture over in China. Mmm.
There’s a huge gap that I’ve noticed with a lot of, you know, customers as well as just the behavior of people who don’t understand who, you know, who they’re dealing with China. And the most important thing that I can probably stress in this, in this podcast or this call is, is that developing a relationship with your suppliers. Probably one of the most important things you’ll ever end up doing for a couple of reasons. One, that’s their business culture. They love learning about you. They like when you go there and meet them in person like when you go out and have dinners with them or go sing karaoke with them. Mmm. It’s all part of developing that a relationship.
And again, if you’re looking for better terms specifically think it from their perspective, they’re basically how the factory’s works is all of them, all the labor and raw materials that go into the final product is they’re giving you a credit to do that before you pay, before you even sell it. Right? So if if let’s say you have 30% down, they’re spending 100% of their, of their costs before you pay that, the rest of that 70% before you pay the rest of that 70% in their eyes, what they’re going to want to see from you is that you’re, that you’re paying your bill on time, maybe even giving them a little bit more than your bill just to show that and develop that credit history. So if you go in there right away before you start placing your first purchase order, maybe it’s after your second or third purchase order, demanding better terms, you haven’t built up enough of credit history with these guys. For them to say, okay, I’m going to front all of it cause I know you’re good for your payment.
Like, that’s just, that’s just kind of a radical thing for them in their eyes that that’s the most important thing for them in terms of the business relationship. If you haven’t visited your factory and actually shown your face and you know, done all the things I talk about, which is like going to dinners and talking about family and, and talking about cultural differences and you know, show that you’re really a partner in this and not just some consumer. That also goes a long way. So that’s, that’s the immediate thing that you can do and that’s what we do again, but I really helped build that relationship is we send people who are on our team, on your behalf to the factory to help develop that relationship. If you want to come to town with our team and go to the factory yourself, that’s actually more than encouraged. We love to do that. We’ve done that now with a few, couple, few of our customers when they go to China, we can take your on Canton fair if you want to do that as well. And it’s not a specific trip that we have set up that we do on a regular basis. It’s just if you have that need or you want to go explore different factories that you want to do, that you get better pricing, et cetera, you can come and use our team cause they are your teams.
Got it. And then just in terms of your because probably everybody has an opinion on this, where do you think this tariff war, trade war is going? Do you have any sort of opinion prediction on, on the future of, of, of what will, what will happen? I imagine as time goes on, it’s a, the longer it goes on, I think it’s sort of a disadvantage to China, right? Because bigger companies are working on setting up factories and other places and Chinese factories are working on setting up factories and other countries. So the longer it goes, the more that gets sort of cemented in. Where do you see things kind of moving in the next year in this terror for?
You know, I tend to be an optimist and think that it’s going to go in the right direction. You know the GDP and all the numbers from China have decreased, you know, to a certain degree that you would say it would be alarming for, you know, the, the, the country they’re lowering their currency, which is obviously a way for them to keep their prices competitive. Mmm. So I, I just don’t see this carrying on much longer. There’s also, Mmm know there’s some, some behind doors, things going on between the U S and in China to [inaudible] it. Phase one deal really struck in an ironclad so that there’s an actual result that happens there. So I don’t see this carrying on know too much longer, maybe another six to nine to 12 months if it does go on beyond that. Yeah. I think, I think China’s in for a real hurting and I don’t, I don’t, I think it’s to their benefit to make it carry on much longer. You know, with the elections coming up in the US that’s also something to bring to the table. Like, you know, who is China going to be dealing with after, you know, 12 months from now when there’s an election. So again, there’s just a bunch of negotiation going back and forth. I tend to think that, you know, again, optimistically this something will get done at least to move this forward in the next six to 12 months.
Got it. Great. so anything else you want to, you want to share? As far as, you know, what, what should, what should sellers be be doing for their sort of 2020 roadmap or, or, you know, figuring out, okay, what are the products that I want to kind of source next? I would imagine even most are, a lot of sellers don’t necessarily have a product roadmap, but any sort of final tips on on, you know, putting that together and then and then also if you can let us know how how sellers can get in touch with you.
Absolutely. So I actually want to go even beyond 2020 and gives you just kind of that frame of reference of, you know, what you should be thinking about from a business standpoint, from the next three to five years. Maybe it’s, you know, ultimately what you’re trying to do, any business is trying to increase the value of your business, of your business. And how you do that is really in two defined ways. You can either add revenue or subtract costs, right? And that’s business fundamentals one-on-one. It’s the John Stockton of businesses. So what I can tell you is if you, if you’re trying to have an exit or you’re trying to just put more money into your pocket, that decision doesn’t start in a year, six months, two years, it starts now you really need to start thinking about where do you want to be in the next three to five years? Are you looking to have that exit? Are you looking to just create some more wealth for yourself through this business? And then that should define how you want to attack it.
So in 2020, if, if you’re, let’s just say your goal is to sell your business in three years, there are two ways. Again, if you add revenue, you need to add more SKUs. If you cut costs, you need to get better pricing with your factory. So three years from now, if all you want to do is is keep what you’re doing, maybe just grow your existing business but cut costs, then you just start having those conversations with your factories now ahead of Chinese new year to net to let them know that you’re serious. Mmm. Coming out of the Chinese new year too.
So you bring that to the table and I always recommend getting competitive bids. Start, you know, getting at least a framework for your, for that conversation. So you have some leverage in any negotiation. Leverage is key. So just go into your factory and say, Hey, I want lower pricing. Well, what, what do they care if you have a competitive bid for your exact product that says, Hey, I’m getting this. I want to keep working with you, but I need you to lower my prices. It’s, you know, it’s, we have tariffs that we’re dealing with. We have, yeah, we’re trying to grow, we’re trying to, you know, trying to really grow in and, and spend more in marketing so I can have, you know, better better turnout and better traction with, with my existing catalog and great, that’s conversation that you should be having, you know, early Q1 into Q2 of 2020, so that’s more on the cost side of things.
If you’re looking to specifically add revenue through new SKUs, that process can take a little bit longer. But you should be having those discussions with, you know, with, with your team and then starting to implement, okay, what, how can I test out one new product? How can I test out two new products? How many SKUs do I want to add? And the next step after that is to do some research and then hire some sort of firm that can do design, industrial engineering and industrial design for you on that stuff that we do at Ghemba. We’d be happy to have those conversations with you. You know, again, I like, I like to think more longterm than short term. So those are the two direct ways that you can start impacting your bottom line right away in 2020 with the goal of you know, having that exit or just creating more wealth for your, for yourself personally within the next three to five years.
Ghemba has the opportunity to work with some of these, these, large buyers of Amazon FBA businesses. So we know exactly what they’re looking for. They’re looking for healthy margins, they’re looking for sustainable supply chains and they’re looking for catalog diversity. So, you know, adding different SKUs to make sure that you aren’t, don’t have all your eggs in one basket, making sure your supply chain is sustainable. So you have good quality, you have good contracts with your factories. Mmm. And then also, you know, again, having healthy margins, so the single-digit margins not as hell, not as attractive to these exit partners as double-digit margins. So I mean that’s, that’s, that’s my advice. Those are the tips as far as how you can get in touch with us. You can go to www.Ghemba.com or you can email info@Ghemba.com. Fill out a form. We’d be happy to talk to you. Be happy to help. Even if you need some, you some guidance on, you know, how you can implement things right now into your supply chain or how you can take the first step into creating your next product. We’d love to talk with you and get that started. Awesome.
Thanks for coming on the show.
Yeah, thank you Liran was great too to talk with you and I hope to see out there soon.
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